3Peatkb24 wrote:I actually went over to Tom's for the 1st time in a long while and was reading some Posts. The great Tate Posted some video regarding Wilt and than a debate broke out on how great Wilt would be in this era? It's really impossible to compare era's because play back in the 50's and 60's was much different than play in the 80's/90's/and now since 2000. I think Rev said it best, when he basically said I should just do my list's from the 1977 Season and on because that is when the ABA/NBA merged. The NBA then had all the best athlete's and 7 footers combined into 1 league. Best way to probably say who the best players are is to break it down from 1947-1976, and 1977 through the present.
IMO the Top 8 players from the 1947 Season when Basketball started through the 1976 Season were:
1. Wilt Chamberlain - Yes he would be #1 on this list
2. Bill Russell
3. Oscar Robertson
4. Jerry West
5. John Havlicek
6. Elgin Baylor
7. George Mikan
8. Bob Cousy
From the 1977 Season- present I would say:
1. Michael Jordan
2. Magic Johnson
3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
4. Kobe Bryant
5. Tim Duncan
6. Shaq O'Neal
7. LeBron James
8. Larry Bird over Hakeem Olajuwon, Bird won more league mvp's and championships being the best player on his team.
-based on stats, overall games won, championships won, league mvp's won, finals mvp's won, clutch play by these players, dominance at their position, and eye test. Of course before 1977 I had no eye test but have seen film on the players from 1947-1976 and to me Wilt was #1 on that list. Kareem belongs in the 1977-present era, he won 5 Championships during that time and 2 of his League MVP's + 1 of his 2 Finals MVP's getting it against the Celtics in 1985! + He played 13 seasons in that era compared to 7 in the other. Kareem did win League MVP in 1977 right after the merge which is big.
3Peatkb24 wrote:I actually went over to Tom's for the 1st time in a long while and was reading some Posts. The great Tate Posted some video regarding Wilt and than a debate broke out on how great Wilt would be in this era? It's really impossible to compare era's because play back in the 50's and 60's was much different than play in the 80's/90's/and now since 2000. I think Rev said it best, when he basically said I should just do my list's from the 1977 Season and on because that is when the ABA/NBA merged. The NBA then had all the best athlete's and 7 footers combined into 1 league. Best way to probably say who the best players are is to break it down from 1947-1976, and 1977 through the present.
IMO the Top 8 players from the 1947 Season when Basketball started through the 1976 Season were:
1. Wilt Chamberlain - Yes he would be #1 on this list
2. Bill Russell
3. Oscar Robertson
4. Jerry West
5. John Havlicek
6. Elgin Baylor
7. George Mikan
8. Bob Cousy
From the 1977 Season- present I would say:
1. Michael Jordan
2. Magic Johnson
3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
4. Kobe Bryant
5. Tim Duncan
6. Shaq O'Neal
7. LeBron James
8. Larry Bird over Hakeem Olajuwon, Bird won more league mvp's and championships being the best player on his team.
-based on stats, overall games won, championships won, league mvp's won, finals mvp's won, clutch play by these players, dominance at their position, and eye test. Of course before 1977 I had no eye test but have seen film on the players from 1947-1976 and to me Wilt was #1 on that list. Kareem belongs in the 1977-present era, he won 5 Championships during that time and 2 of his League MVP's + 1 of his 2 Finals MVP's getting it against the Celtics in 1985! + He played 13 seasons in that era compared to 7 in the other. Kareem did win League MVP in 1977 right after the merge which is big.
3Peatkb24 wrote:I actually went over to Tom's for the 1st time in a long while and was reading some Posts. The great Tate Posted some video regarding Wilt and than a debate broke out on how great Wilt would be in this era? It's really impossible to compare era's because play back in the 50's and 60's was much different than play in the 80's/90's/and now since 2000. I think Rev said it best, when he basically said I should just do my list's from the 1977 Season and on because that is when the ABA/NBA merged. The NBA then had all the best athlete's and 7 footers combined into 1 league. Best way to probably say who the best players are is to break it down from 1947-1976, and 1977 through the present.
IMO the Top 8 players from the 1947 Season when Basketball started through the 1976 Season were:
1. Wilt Chamberlain - Yes he would be #1 on this list
2. Bill Russell
3. Oscar Robertson
4. Jerry West
5. John Havlicek
6. Elgin Baylor
7. George Mikan
8. Bob Cousy
From the 1977 Season- present I would say:
1. Michael Jordan
2. Magic Johnson
3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
4. Kobe Bryant
5. Tim Duncan
6. Shaq O'Neal
7. LeBron James
8. Larry Bird over Hakeem Olajuwon, Bird won more league mvp's and championships being the best player on his team.
-based on stats, overall games won, championships won, league mvp's won, finals mvp's won, clutch play by these players, dominance at their position, and eye test. Of course before 1977 I had no eye test but have seen film on the players from 1947-1976 and to me Wilt was #1 on that list. Kareem belongs in the 1977-present era, he won 5 Championships during that time and 2 of his League MVP's + 1 of his 2 Finals MVP's getting it against the Celtics in 1985! + He played 13 seasons in that era compared to 7 in the other. Kareem did win League MVP in 1977 right after the merge which is big.
3Peatkb24 wrote:3Peatkb24 wrote:I actually went over to Tom's for the 1st time in a long while and was reading some Posts. The great Tate Posted some video regarding Wilt and than a debate broke out on how great Wilt would be in this era? It's really impossible to compare era's because play back in the 50's and 60's was much different than play in the 80's/90's/and now since 2000. I think Rev said it best, when he basically said I should just do my list's from the 1977 Season and on because that is when the ABA/NBA merged. The NBA then had all the best athlete's and 7 footers combined into 1 league. Best way to probably say who the best players are is to break it down from 1947-1976, and 1977 through the present.
IMO the Top 8 players from the 1947 Season when Basketball started through the 1976 Season were:
1. Wilt Chamberlain - Yes he would be #1 on this list
2. Bill Russell
3. Oscar Robertson
4. Jerry West
5. John Havlicek
6. Elgin Baylor
7. George Mikan
8. Bob Cousy
From the 1977 Season- present I would say:
1. Michael Jordan
2. Magic Johnson
3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
4. Kobe Bryant
5. Tim Duncan
6. Shaq O'Neal
7. LeBron James
8. Larry Bird over Hakeem Olajuwon, Bird won more league mvp's and championships being the best player on his team.
-based on stats, overall games won, championships won, league mvp's won, finals mvp's won, clutch play by these players, dominance at their position, and eye test. Of course before 1977 I had no eye test but have seen film on the players from 1947-1976 and to me Wilt was #1 on that list. Kareem belongs in the 1977-present era, he won 5 Championships during that time and 2 of his League MVP's + 1 of his 2 Finals MVP's getting it against the Celtics in 1985! + He played 13 seasons in that era compared to 7 in the other. Kareem did win League MVP in 1977 right after the merge which is big.
Nothing has still changed regarding my lists here which I broke down into 2 different times. It's interesting watching these young guys today. I cant see 1 player now that is even close to being better than any of the above players I mentioned from either time. LeBron is already on the list. Maybe Stephen Curry eventually? Kevin Durant hurt his legacy by leaving OKC IMO, Great talent but if the Warriors win it all and someone says he is now only Great because he has a Ring, that is BS. He should joining that team. I think LeBron's Championships were cheap in Miami but he won last season in Cleveland so that is very legit.
3Peatkb24 wrote:3Peatkb24 wrote:I actually went over to Tom's for the 1st time in a long while and was reading some Posts. The great Tate Posted some video regarding Wilt and than a debate broke out on how great Wilt would be in this era? It's really impossible to compare era's because play back in the 50's and 60's was much different than play in the 80's/90's/and now since 2000. I think Rev said it best, when he basically said I should just do my list's from the 1977 Season and on because that is when the ABA/NBA merged. The NBA then had all the best athlete's and 7 footers combined into 1 league. Best way to probably say who the best players are is to break it down from 1947-1976, and 1977 through the present.
IMO the Top 8 players from the 1947 Season when Basketball started through the 1976 Season were:
1. Wilt Chamberlain - Yes he would be #1 on this list
2. Bill Russell
3. Oscar Robertson
4. Jerry West
5. John Havlicek
6. Elgin Baylor
7. George Mikan
8. Bob Cousy
From the 1977 Season- present I would say:
1. Michael Jordan
2. Magic Johnson
3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
4. Kobe Bryant
5. Tim Duncan
6. Shaq O'Neal
7. LeBron James
8. Larry Bird over Hakeem Olajuwon, Bird won more league mvp's and championships being the best player on his team.
-based on stats, overall games won, championships won, league mvp's won, finals mvp's won, clutch play by these players, dominance at their position, and eye test. Of course before 1977 I had no eye test but have seen film on the players from 1947-1976 and to me Wilt was #1 on that list. Kareem belongs in the 1977-present era, he won 5 Championships during that time and 2 of his League MVP's + 1 of his 2 Finals MVP's getting it against the Celtics in 1985! + He played 13 seasons in that era compared to 7 in the other. Kareem did win League MVP in 1977 right after the merge which is big.
Here's the real question, was Basketball better from 1947 through the 1976 Season or has it been better since the 1977 Season - Present. In a series who would win between:
Team A
PG Oscar Robertson
SG Jerry West
SF Elgin Baylor - Was a true SF
PF Bill Russell - I will put him here because Wilt is my Center
C Wilt Chamberlain
Main Bench players
John Havlicek - SG and played SF as well.
George Mikan - C, can play PF as well if need be
Bob Cousy - PG
-Coached by Red Auerbach
Team B
PG Magic Johnson
SG Michael Jordan
SF LeBron James
PF Tim Duncan
C Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Main Bench players
Kobe Bryant - SG/SF, Kobe could even play a little PG if need be.
Shaq O'Neal - C
Larry Bird - SF, could play PF in a pinch because of his Rebounding
-Coached by Phil Jackson
I think the answer is obvious who would win here and I took the best 8 possible players Team A can have.
3Peatkb24 wrote:3Peatkb24 wrote:I actually went over to Tom's for the 1st time in a long while and was reading some Posts. The great Tate Posted some video regarding Wilt and than a debate broke out on how great Wilt would be in this era? It's really impossible to compare era's because play back in the 50's and 60's was much different than play in the 80's/90's/and now since 2000. I think Rev said it best, when he basically said I should just do my list's from the 1977 Season and on because that is when the ABA/NBA merged. The NBA then had all the best athlete's and 7 footers combined into 1 league. Best way to probably say who the best players are is to break it down from 1947-1976, and 1977 through the present.
IMO the Top 8 players from the 1947 Season when Basketball started through the 1976 Season were:
1. Wilt Chamberlain - Yes he would be #1 on this list
2. Bill Russell
3. Oscar Robertson
4. Jerry West
5. John Havlicek
6. Elgin Baylor
7. George Mikan
8. Bob Cousy
From the 1977 Season- present I would say:
1. Michael Jordan
2. Magic Johnson
3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
4. Kobe Bryant
5. Tim Duncan
6. Shaq O'Neal
7. LeBron James
8. Larry Bird over Hakeem Olajuwon, Bird won more league mvp's and championships being the best player on his team.
-These rankings are based on stats, overall games won, championships won, league mvp's won, finals mvp's won, clutch play by these players, dominance at their position, a players leadership, and eye test. Of course before 1977 I had no eye test but have seen film on the players from 1947-1976 and to me Wilt was #1 on that list. Kareem belongs in the 1977-present era, he won 5 Championships during that time and 2 of his League MVP's + 1 of his 2 Finals MVP's getting it against the Celtics in 1985! + He played 13 seasons in that era compared to 7 in the other. Kareem did win League MVP in 1977 right after the merge which is big.
If I had to choose 1 guy from the ABA that was the best, that would've been Doctor J. He averaged 28.8 Points per game in his 5 seasons in that league and won 2 Championships and 2 Playoff MVP's. A true unreal talent! He was also named to the all-time ABA Team.
3Peatkb24 wrote:3Peatkb24 wrote:3Peatkb24 wrote:I actually went over to Tom's for the 1st time in a long while and was reading some Posts. The great Tate Posted some video regarding Wilt and than a debate broke out on how great Wilt would be in this era? It's really impossible to compare era's because play back in the 50's and 60's was much different than play in the 80's/90's/and now since 2000. I think Rev said it best, when he basically said I should just do my list's from the 1977 Season and on because that is when the ABA/NBA merged. The NBA then had all the best athlete's and 7 footers combined into 1 league. Best way to probably say who the best players are is to break it down from 1947-1976, and 1977 through the present.
IMO the Top 8 players from the 1947 Season when Basketball started through the 1976 Season were:
1. Wilt Chamberlain - Yes he would be #1 on this list
2. Bill Russell
3. Oscar Robertson
4. Jerry West
5. John Havlicek
6. Elgin Baylor
7. George Mikan
8. Bob Cousy
From the 1977 Season- present I would say:
1. Michael Jordan
2. Magic Johnson
3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
4. Kobe Bryant
5. Tim Duncan
6. Shaq O'Neal
7. LeBron James
8. Larry Bird over Hakeem Olajuwon, Bird won more league mvp's and championships being the best player on his team.
-These rankings are based on stats, overall games won, championships won, league mvp's won, finals mvp's won, clutch play by these players, dominance at their position, a players leadership, and eye test. Of course before 1977 I had no eye test but have seen film on the players from 1947-1976 and to me Wilt was #1 on that list. Kareem belongs in the 1977-present era, he won 5 Championships during that time and 2 of his League MVP's + 1 of his 2 Finals MVP's getting it against the Celtics in 1985! + He played 13 seasons in that era compared to 7 in the other. Kareem did win League MVP in 1977 right after the merge which is big.
If I had to choose 1 guy from the ABA that was the best, that would've been Doctor J. He averaged 28.8 Points per game in his 5 seasons in that league and won 2 Championships and 2 Playoff MVP's. A true unreal talent! He was also named to the all-time ABA Team.
So if LeBron somehow wins the Championship this season where would he rank on a list of players since the ABA/NBA merger (1977-now)? I have him a hair better than Bird after the way he led his team back from 1-3 down against the Warriors last season without HCA. I still think Bird is arguably just as great and actually a better clutch player but LeBron's overall game is tough to ignore. I currently have him 7th best, to me Shaq was still more dominant and still has more Championships with 3 straight Finals MVP's from 2000-2002 and Duncan has 5 Championships + his teams have beat LeBron teams twice in the Finals. I think Kobe at #4 is safe for now, LeBron would have to win at least 2 more Championships for me to even entertain the thought that he could pass Kobe.
KobeMVP888 wrote:
3Peatkb24 wrote:3Peatkb24 wrote:I actually went over to Tom's for the 1st time in a long while and was reading some Posts. The great Tate Posted some video regarding Wilt and than a debate broke out on how great Wilt would be in this era? It's really impossible to compare era's because play back in the 50's and 60's was much different than play in the 80's/90's/and now since 2000. I think Rev said it best, when he basically said I should just do my list's from the 1977 Season and on because that is when the ABA/NBA merged. The NBA then had all the best athlete's and 7 footers combined into 1 league. Best way to probably say who the best players are is to break it down from 1947-1976, and 1977 through the present.
IMO the Top 10 players from the 1947 Season when Basketball started through the 1976 Season were:
1. Wilt Chamberlain - Yes he would be #1 on this list
2. Bill Russell
3. Oscar Robertson
4. Jerry West
5. John Havlicek
6. Elgin Baylor
7. George Mikan
8. Bob Cousy
9. Bob Pettit
10. Walt Frazier
From the 1977 Season- present I would say:
1. Michael Jordan
2. Magic Johnson
3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
4. Kobe Bryant
5. Tim Duncan
6. Shaq O'Neal
7. LeBron James
8. Larry Bird
9. Hakeem Olajuwon
10. Moses Malone by a hair over Karl Malone, I would probably put Doctor J at 12.
- These rankings are based on Stats, Overall Games Won, Championships Won, League MVP's Won, Finals MVP's Won, Clutch Play by these players, Dominance At Their Position, Leadership that the players had, and Eye Test. Of course before 1977 I had no eye test but have seen film on the players from 1947-1976 and to me Wilt was #1 on that list. Kareem belongs in the 1977-present era, he won 5 Championships during that time and 2 of his League MVP's as well. 1 of his 2 Finals MVP's were won in that era too which was against the Celtics in 1985! + He played 13 seasons in that era compared to 7 in the other. Kareem did win League MVP in 1977 right after the merge which is big.
If I had to choose 1 guy from the ABA that was the best, that would've been Doctor J. He averaged 28.8 Points per game in his 5 seasons in that league and won 2 Championships and 2 Playoff MVP's. A true unreal talent! He was also named to the All-Time ABA Team.
3Peatkb24 wrote:3Peatkb24 wrote:3Peatkb24 wrote:I actually went over to Tom's for the 1st time in a long while and was reading some Posts. The great Tate Posted some video regarding Wilt and than a debate broke out on how great Wilt would be in this era? It's really impossible to compare era's because play back in the 50's and 60's was much different than play in the 80's/90's/and now since 2000. I think Rev said it best, when he basically said I should just do my list's from the 1977 Season and on because that is when the ABA/NBA merged. The NBA then had all the best athlete's and 7 footers combined into 1 league. Best way to probably say who the best players are is to break it down from 1947-1976, and 1977 through the present.
IMO the Top 10 players from the 1947 Season when Basketball started through the 1976 Season were:
1. Wilt Chamberlain - Yes he would be #1 on this list
2. Bill Russell
3. Oscar Robertson
4. Jerry West
5. John Havlicek
6. Elgin Baylor
7. George Mikan
8. Bob Cousy
9. Bob Pettit
10. Walt Frazier
From the 1977 Season- present I would say:
1. Michael Jordan
2. Magic Johnson
3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
4. Kobe Bryant
5. Tim Duncan
6. Shaq O'Neal
7. LeBron James
8. Larry Bird
9. Hakeem Olajuwon
10. Moses Malone by a hair over Karl Malone, I would probably put Doctor J at 12.
- These rankings are based on Stats, Overall Games Won, Championships Won, League MVP's Won, Finals MVP's Won, Clutch Play by these players, Dominance At Their Position, Leadership that the players had, and Eye Test. Of course before 1977 I had no eye test but have seen film on the players from 1947-1976 and to me Wilt was #1 on that list. Kareem belongs in the 1977-present era, he won 5 Championships during that time and 2 of his League MVP's as well. 1 of his 2 Finals MVP's were won in that era too which was against the Celtics in 1985! + He played 13 seasons in that era compared to 7 in the other. Kareem did win League MVP in 1977 right after the merge which is big.
If I had to choose 1 guy from the ABA that was the best, that would've been Doctor J. He averaged 28.8 Points per game in his 5 seasons in that league and won 2 Championships and 2 Playoff MVP's. A true unreal talent! He was also named to the All-Time ABA Team.
*updated as of May 12th, 2017 and smokified like my Barbecue Pizza! Regarding All-Time teams I would still take either the 1987 or 1988 Lakers over any team. In those 2 seasons nobody was beating those Lakers! They not only had the frontline to deal with any other team that has played, with Kareem and Worthy (and the addition of Mychal Thompson in 1987 after losing to Houston in 1986) but they had the best Leader in the sport history wise in Magic. Magic is also arguably the GOAT! They also could shoot the 3 with Cooper and Scott to hang with the 3 point shooting teams of today. Coop once hit 7 3's in the Finals vs the Celtics in a game.
3Peatkb24 wrote:3Peatkb24 wrote:3Peatkb24 wrote:3Peatkb24 wrote:I actually went over to Tom's for the 1st time in a long while and was reading some Posts. The great Tate Posted some video regarding Wilt and than a debate broke out on how great Wilt would be in this era? It's really impossible to compare era's because play back in the 50's and 60's was much different than play in the 80's/90's/and now since 2000. I think Rev said it best, when he basically said I should just do my list's from the 1977 Season and on because that is when the ABA/NBA merged. The NBA then had all the best athlete's and 7 footers combined into 1 league. Best way to probably say who the best players are is to break it down from 1947-1976, and 1977 through the present.
IMO the Top 10 players from the 1947 Season when Basketball started through the 1976 Season were:
1. Wilt Chamberlain - Yes he would be #1 on this list
2. Bill Russell
3. Oscar Robertson
4. Jerry West
5. John Havlicek
6. Elgin Baylor
7. George Mikan
8. Bob Cousy
9. Bob Pettit
10. Walt Frazier
From the 1977 Season- present I would say:
1. Michael Jordan
2. Magic Johnson
3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
4. Kobe Bryant
5. Tim Duncan
6. Shaq O'Neal
7. LeBron James
8. Larry Bird
9. Hakeem Olajuwon
10. Moses Malone by a hair over Karl Malone, I would probably put Doctor J at 12.
- These rankings are based on Stats, Overall Games Won, Championships Won, League MVP's Won, Finals MVP's Won, Clutch Play by these players, Dominance At Their Position, Leadership that the players had, and Eye Test. Of course before 1977 I had no eye test but have seen film on the players from 1947-1976 and to me Wilt was #1 on that list. Kareem belongs in the 1977-present era, he won 5 Championships during that time and 2 of his League MVP's as well. 1 of his 2 Finals MVP's were won in that era too which was against the Celtics in 1985! + He played 13 seasons in that era compared to 7 in the other. Kareem did win League MVP in 1977 right after the merge which is big.
If I had to choose 1 guy from the ABA that was the best, that would've been Doctor J. He averaged 28.8 Points per game in his 5 seasons in that league and won 2 Championships and 2 Playoff MVP's. A true unreal talent! He was also named to the All-Time ABA Team.
*updated as of May 12th, 2017 and smokified like my Barbecue Pizza! Regarding All-Time teams I would still take either the 1987 or 1988 Lakers over any team. In those 2 seasons nobody was beating those Lakers! They not only had the frontline to deal with any other team that has played, with Kareem and Worthy (and the addition of Mychal Thompson in 1987 after losing to Houston in 1986) but they had the best Leader in the sport history wise in Magic. Magic is also arguably the GOAT! They also could shoot the 3 with Cooper and Scott to hang with the 3 point shooting teams of today. Coop once hit 7 3's in the Finals vs the Celtics in a game.
LeBron, the Warriors are lurking buddy! Durant can smell that Ring!
lakerevolution wrote:O'Shea Jackson aka Ice Cube would agree with you that the 1987 Lakers remain as the greatest team all-time. A good mix of offense, defense, paint presence and long-range ability. Having dispatched Bird and the Celtics for good, they took on the best of the West in 1988 and (barely) got past the deadly Bad Boys for the first modern-era repeat. These Warriors, having dispatched LeBron, may just rule the NBA for the next few years.
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