tate793 wrote:Wow. You must have watched some bad film, or read some bad articles. Because Elgin Baylor, Jerry West, Wilt [and Oscar Robertson - even though you didn't name him] were all "unassuming". So was Bill Russell. Maybe, it's because you didn't get an opportunity to see them play over the span of a season, or, in person. Hell, they all had retired before you were in kindergarten.
Pistol Pete Maravich, Russell Westbrook, have wow factors - I guess one would have to appreciate their style of play.
To make a statement like "Duncan doesn't wow anybody", suggests that you didn't see enough of Duncan to appreciate him.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2L8TjvPQE8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0MfZxroXQY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ODRyXOurng
Watch, and then tell me how "unassuming" Tim Duncan actually is.
tate793 wrote:First of all, there's a difference in what someone sees first hand, and, what someone reads or sees in a couple of video clips. My age is not a factor, just the fact that I actually saw the players that I talk about play. I saw them play against other players. Game situations that show their strengths and weaknesses. My age also says that I have had a great passion for the game longer than somebody younger, but, I'll get to all of that later.
Being the logo didn't have a fucking thing to do with Jerry West play on the court. It helped that he was a great player, but, the reason he is the logo is because the official NBA staff of the then commissioner selected the profile of a photograph of him and used it for a metdia guide. But watching him play he never changed his facial expression. Didn't get all pumped up, pumping his fist, opening his mouth wide, screaming, high-fiving, or anything of the sort. Neither did Baylor, Russell, Oscar Robrtson or Wilt. They didn't do it. Nobody reached out to touch hands after free throws, or, when going to the bench. That's what I mean by unassuming. Wilt never changed his game after they widened the lane. He didn't develop any finesse moves as you claim. He had the same moves his whole career. His finger roll, a turnaround jumper and his dunk. As a matter of fact, the widening of the lane wasn't to keep Wilt "out of the paint", but to make it more difficult for him to do his finger roll while remaining outside of the paint. His length allowed him to reach in without being in the paint. The additional 2' on either side of the basket prevented that.
The term you used was "unassuming" referencing Duncan. Then you listed your players that wowed you. I pointed out several of them that I had seen play, first hand, and knew that they were unassuming as well. I never said jack shit about them not having wow. So go back and read the posts, and get your fucking facts straight.
I don't put anybody down because of their age, but, I will state facts that I know because I've seen it first hand. Been a Laker fan since before they even moved to LA. Before Chick Hearn was calling the games. Lived in Minny during the time they were there. In Cali, my mom was Ruby Baylor's hairdresser. Knew them well. Ruby's younger brother is still one of my best friends. Not saying that makes me better than you. just that I have had more access to the NBA. Wilt was in Baylor's wedding. So was Oscar, as a matter of fact.
I don't even pretend to have the same convos with you that I have with 3Preat. I didn't address you in this thread, either. You made your commentsCraig wrote: but he's too unassuming to be considered above some of the all time greatsCraig wrote:How's Wilt, Russell, West, Baylor unassuming?
un·as·sum·ing
ˌənəˈso͞omiNG/Submit
adjective
not pretentious or arrogant; modest.
"he was an unassuming and kindly man"
synonyms: synonyms: modest, self-effacing, humble, meek, bashful, reserved, diffident; unobtrusive, unostentatious, low-key, unpretentious, unaffected, natural, artless, ingenuous, unpresuming
Those synonyms describe Wilt, Russell, Elgin, Jerry and Timmy perfectly. So maybe, Sir, you used the wrong word. Ya think? Oh, and one more thing. Go suck an egg.
3Peatkb24 wrote:Didn't realize you were in Cancun Craig! Man that has to be nice. I honestly don't think having watching someone live gives a person a huge advantage of ranking that player. I say that because of todays technology. I have seen at least 100's of youtube clips regarding Wilt and Russell. ESPN Films has shown full games when Wilt played against the Knicks in the Finals so regarding me I have seen some of his games. Of course I never watched him over an 82 game span but still have seen a lot of his play. When I have watched him and have watched Kareem, to me Kareem was better. There wasn't one thing Kareem couldn't do. Wilt couldn't shoot FT's, same for Shaq. Russell had deficiencies on Offense. Kareem had 0 weaknesses.
Lakers4Life wrote:3Peatkb24 wrote:Didn't realize you were in Cancun Craig! Man that has to be nice. I honestly don't think having watching someone live gives a person a huge advantage of ranking that player. I say that because of todays technology. I have seen at least 100's of youtube clips regarding Wilt and Russell. ESPN Films has shown full games when Wilt played against the Knicks in the Finals so regarding me I have seen some of his games. Of course I never watched him over an 82 game span but still have seen a lot of his play. When I have watched him and have watched Kareem, to me Kareem was better. There wasn't one thing Kareem couldn't do. Wilt couldn't shoot FT's, same for Shaq. Russell had deficiencies on Offense. Kareem had 0 weaknesses.
Yeah 3-Peat I'm going to miss the draft tomorrow. But I'm having a blast. This place is paradise. I actually swam through 2 different tropical rivers through caves, waterfalls etc... It was amazing. The sand here is so soft. The water so crystal clear blue. Perfect weather.
tate793 wrote:i understand, and agree, 3Peat. I don't know what Craig's problem is. It's like the 3rd time he's jumped down my throat. While he may be a passionate fan, that doesn't make him knowledgeable about stuff he hasn't seen. Pisses me off when someone wants to argue about something that I witnessed first hand and they only know what they've heard somebody else say, what they've read or some random vintage clip. Hell, if you totaled up all of the available video on Wilt, there's less than an hour. Pretty much the same with West, Baylor, Big O or Russell.
Elgin and Ruby (the older sister of one of my best friends) had an anniversary bash, at which Wilt and Oscar were both there. Wilt was already pissed off because he had been traded from SF Warriors to the 76ers. He had smacked the other center Connie Dierking, because Dierking had elbowed him in the stomach because Wilt would call him Constance during practice. Well, when Wilt smacks somebody, they've (1) Pushed him too far and (2) They've been really SMACKED. He had a telegram from Alex Hanum about the lane widening that had been sent by Walter Kennedy (who was the Commissioner at that time) and it basically said that Wilt's length game him an unfair advantage over the opposition so they were widening the lane in the best interest of the league.
I respect anyone's opinion. But, when someone tries to tell me something about what I know first hand, and, they don't, it's just stupid. That would be like me telling you about drinking shots of Crowne when I've never tasted it. Just because he's a passionate fan, doesn't increase the validity of his opinion.
Anyhow, we got Brandon Ingram! Just so glad they didn't blow it by drafting the Dragan Bender. I may eat those words later, but, I doubt it.
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