The NBA Finals Thread

Re: The NBA Finals Thread

Postby 3Peatkb24 » Sun Jun 19, 2016 11:23 pm

I just heard you talk LeBron. I will never doubt you again! I just wanted to see something like this to make me believe you had that Jordan, Magic, Bird, Kobe type of shit to pull off GREAT STUFF!
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Re: The NBA Finals Thread

Postby 3Peatkb24 » Mon Jun 20, 2016 12:07 am

tate793 wrote:Well, since there is so much more to debate, I'll come outta retirement.


1. Based on all of your criteria, it's hard to figure how you can rate Magic above Kareem. Kareem scores higher in every category that you list.

2. Both Shaq and Duncan should rank higher than Bird.

Duncan Longevity 20 yrs Bird Longevity 13 yrs
Duncan 5 Championships Bird 3 Championships
Duncan 2 MVPs Bird 3 MVPs
Duncan 3 3 Finals MVPs Bird 2 Finals MVPs
Duncan 1 ASG MVP Bird 1 ASG MVP
Duncan 15 ASGs Bird 12 ASGs
Duncan Total All NBA 31 Bird Total All NBA 13
1st Team 11 1st Team 8
2nd Team 2 2nd Team 1
3rd Team 2 3rd Team 0
Defense 1st Team 8 Defensive 1st Team 0
2nd Team 6 2nd Team 3
Duncan Rebs Per G 10.8 Bird Rebs Per G 10.0
Duncan Total 15091 Bird Total 8974
Duncan Pts Per G 19.00 Bird Pts Per G 24.3
Duncan Total 26496 (17th) Bird Total 21791 (37th)


Basically a lot of it is eye test and what era a player played in. Of course I can only judge players like Jordan, Magic, Kareem, Kobe, LeBron, Bird, Duncan, Shaq, Hakeem, and Karl Malone just to throw him in because I have seen them live. As well as players like Moses and Doc, Wade, etc.. I posted earlier, one reason why I had Bird rated so high was the era he played in. He went against Magic Johnson in the Finals when he lost other wise he would have 4 or 5 Championships at worse. Yes Stats are big, MVP's are big, but so are Championships. LeBron and Bird are still even in Championships but because LeBron has more League MVP's and has tied him in Championships, I now give him the edge. Duncan doesn't have 3 League MVP's like Bird has nor has he ever been the best player in the league like Bird was in 1984 and 1986. Duncan has never been better than Kobe or better than Shaq was at his best IMO from 2000-2002. Bird actually was better than Magic for a couple of years I hate to say it.
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Re: The NBA Finals Thread

Postby 3Peatkb24 » Mon Jun 20, 2016 7:03 am

Hey Ken, stinky Mo got a Ring! Your thoughts? "lol4:
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Re: The NBA Finals Thread

Postby lakerevolution » Mon Jun 20, 2016 7:56 am

Tim Duncan had the same "it" factor as Mailman. Why is Karl Malone not in the top ten, or even 12? The rings. Tim had way more talent helping him, and he was never the dazzling athletic force that Kareem, Karl, Hakeem or even Shaq was. Bird was by far the more athletic and entertaining player of the two, and that's why he likely remains above Duncan on most lists. History will tell.
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Re: The NBA Finals Thread

Postby Lakers4Life » Mon Jun 20, 2016 2:18 pm

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Re: The NBA Finals Thread

Postby lakerevolution » Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:57 am

Tate - my comparison was between Duncan and Karl Malone. I don't know where Bird ranks, but I do know that for a gangly podunk white boy from French Lick he certainly was athletic, strong, deceptively quick with his hands and had an attitude to boot. Many of the romanticized, charismatic reasons we use to boost Jordan, Magic, Kareem and Kobe up our "best of" or "favorites" list are present with Bird as well. Dr. J, Magic, Bird, Jordan, Kobe, LeBron -- these guys didn't just have a scattering of great individual performances at certain times, they were consistently head-and-shoulders above their competition in their era during the regular season, generally elevated their game during the playoffs, and brought flair and drama to the sport on its biggest stage.

Bird-haters (which we've all been at some point) are gonna diminish his impact on the NBA just like LeBron-haters, Kobe-haters, etc will always do when talking all-time rankings. Karl Malone is hated for a number of reasons that have little to do with what he did on the court (going ringless doesn't help), and poor Timmy was just the most boring superstar to watch on the most boring multi-championship team in the last 15-20 years. If he learned to shoot FTs and was a little more Kevin Durant-ish in his personality and attitude, I guarantee the media - and therefore the masses of NBA fans - would have held him in higher regard. He should be above Shaq on any list, but alas the bigger, louder and flashier players will always get the brass ring. Think if Grant Hill would never have had all those injuries and gone on to lead a squad to a few titles - would his quiet, gentlemanly demeanor have worked for or against him?

Again - I'm not sure where Bird ranks now among the all-timers. My feeling is that he can't be ranked above LeBron anymore, and should probably be neck-and-neck with Tim no matter where those two are ranked. We probably need a separate Centers list.
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Re: The NBA Finals Thread

Postby 3Peatkb24 » Tue Jun 21, 2016 8:21 am

lakerevolution wrote:Tate - my comparison was between Duncan and Karl Malone. I don't know where Bird ranks, but I do know that for a gangly podunk white boy from French Lick he certainly was athletic, strong, deceptively quick with his hands and had an attitude to boot. Many of the romanticized, charismatic reasons we use to boost Jordan, Magic, Kareem and Kobe up our "best of" or "favorites" list are present with Bird as well. Dr. J, Magic, Bird, Jordan, Kobe, LeBron -- these guys didn't just have a scattering of great individual performances at certain times, they were consistently head-and-shoulders above their competition in their era during the regular season, generally elevated their game during the playoffs, and brought flair and drama to the sport on its biggest stage.

Bird-haters (which we've all been at some point) are gonna diminish his impact on the NBA just like LeBron-haters, Kobe-haters, etc will always do when talking all-time rankings. Karl Malone is hated for a number of reasons that have little to do with what he did on the court (going ringless doesn't help), and poor Timmy was just the most boring superstar to watch on the most boring multi-championship team in the last 15-20 years. If he learned to shoot FTs and was a little more Kevin Durant-ish in his personality and attitude, I guarantee the media - and therefore the masses of NBA fans - would have held him in higher regard. He should be above Shaq on any list, but alas the bigger, louder and flashier players will always get the brass ring. Think if Grant Hill would never have had all those injuries and gone on to lead a squad to a few titles - would his quiet, gentlemanly demeanor have worked for or against him?

Again - I'm not sure where Bird ranks now among the all-timers. My feeling is that he can't be ranked above LeBron anymore, and should probably be neck-and-neck with Tim no matter where those two are ranked. We probably need a separate Centers list.


Great Post. I just respect Bird because he always gave the Lakers fits. I hated him and the Celtics but he was damn Great.
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Re: The NBA Finals Thread

Postby 3Peatkb24 » Tue Jun 21, 2016 9:45 am

Rev, I was just watching some old youtube clips of Karl. I love their PA guy. When he scored, he would say "Mailman delivers". Man he ate Duncan and Robinson alive in the 1998 Semi-Finals.
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Re: The NBA Finals Thread

Postby 3Peatkb24 » Tue Jun 21, 2016 9:55 am

The 1997 Jazz would've beat either of these teams in the Finals this season. OKC would've gave the Jazz problems because they are very athletic and tall but the Jazz would've beat the Warriors or Cavs IMO. Horny and Stock would've hit 3's and Malone would've destroyed anyone either team had down low. The 1997 Jazz = beat team never to win a Title. They lost to Chicago (4-2) and 3 of their losses were by 2 points.
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Re: The NBA Finals Thread

Postby 3Peatkb24 » Tue Jun 21, 2016 6:52 pm

Being serious for a change, if Duncan played Malone one on one, I think Karl would beat him because he is a better shooter. Duncan has the better career though.
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Re: The NBA Finals Thread

Postby Lakers4Life » Wed Jun 22, 2016 4:51 am

tate793 wrote:
lakerevolution wrote:Tate - my comparison was between Duncan and Karl Malone. I don't know where Bird ranks, but I do know that for a gangly podunk white boy from French Lick he certainly was athletic, strong, deceptively quick with his hands and had an attitude to boot. Many of the romanticized, charismatic reasons we use to boost Jordan, Magic, Kareem and Kobe up our "best of" or "favorites" list are present with Bird as well. Dr. J, Magic, Bird, Jordan, Kobe, LeBron -- these guys didn't just have a scattering of great individual performances at certain times, they were consistently head-and-shoulders above their competition in their era during the regular season, generally elevated their game during the playoffs, and brought flair and drama to the sport on its biggest stage.

Bird-haters (which we've all been at some point) are gonna diminish his impact on the NBA just like LeBron-haters, Kobe-haters, etc will always do when talking all-time rankings. Karl Malone is hated for a number of reasons that have little to do with what he did on the court (going ringless doesn't help), and poor Timmy was just the most boring superstar to watch on the most boring multi-championship team in the last 15-20 years. If he learned to shoot FTs and was a little more Kevin Durant-ish in his personality and attitude, I guarantee the media - and therefore the masses of NBA fans - would have held him in higher regard. He should be above Shaq on any list, but alas the bigger, louder and flashier players will always get the brass ring. Think if Grant Hill would never have had all those injuries and gone on to lead a squad to a few titles - would his quiet, gentlemanly demeanor have worked for or against him?

Again - I'm not sure where Bird ranks now among the all-timers. My feeling is that he can't be ranked above LeBron anymore, and should probably be neck-and-neck with Tim no matter where those two are ranked. We probably need a separate Centers list.


Ok. I obviously thought you were referencing Bird/Duncan. Duncan and Malone are neck-and-neck in the convo of best PF of all time. Even though he played a lot of center, causing the convo to be convoluted. His "boringness" is one of the qualities that endears him to the fundamentalists. As does his quiet demeanor by which he goes about doing his job. Karl had the crafty John Stockton constantly feeding him in his sweet spots, especially at the elbow. Karl, like Timmy, was a double/double machine. To his credit, Duncan is a product of his upbringing in the Virgin Islands. The cultural attributes of respectful, quiet, work ethic and studious could have a lot to do with his demeanor. I remember when there was a question regarding Kobe's street cred because he came across as a goody-two-shoes (up until the Colorado incident). Probably why Joey Crawford had a hard on for Duncan is because he couldn't get a raise outta him.



Timmy = No wow. And to be an an all-time great you got to wow. What's his go to move? Does he have one? Yes he's "fundamental" but does that make him the best of the best? He gots the basics down. Whoopi doo. That makes him a great team player/system guy. I'm not saying he's no good. But the best of the best need to be scrutinized a little more.
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Re: The NBA Finals Thread

Postby lakerevolution » Wed Jun 22, 2016 6:46 am

Yeah with Tim it's the rings as the "face of the franchise" though without Tony Parker and the championship-level contributions of Manu, Horry, Kerr, Kawhi etc. and of course the brilliance of Coach Pop, his HOF efforts fall short more than a couple times. On one side he's "boring", on the other he's "respectable" . . I think it balances out the top ten/twelve list to have a couple guys like that.
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Re: The NBA Finals Thread

Postby 3Peatkb24 » Wed Jun 22, 2016 9:58 pm

The problem with saying Duncan is the greatest PF ever is he played Center a bunch as well. Many classify him as a Center where as players like Karl and Dirk were true PF's their whole career's.
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Re: The NBA Finals Thread

Postby Lakers4Life » Wed Jun 22, 2016 10:18 pm

tate793 wrote:
Lakers4Life wrote:Timmy = No wow. And to be an an all-time great you got to wow. What's his go to move? Does he have one? Yes he's "fundamental" but does that make him the best of the best? He gots the basics down. Whoopi doo. That makes him a great team player/system guy. I'm not saying he's no good. But the best of the best need to be scrutinized a little more.



Timmy has the most accurate, efficient and remarkable bank shot in the last 20 yrs. That fadeaway bank from the left side and low block is his go-to move. And, why don't you check the much-ballyhooed list, (pick any one you like) and see who is listed as "the best of the best" in power forwards. Then, you can answer your own questions. [Hint* - I have never seen an "All Time Greatest PF's that did not list Tim Duncan as #1]. So, do your scrutinizing. Whoopi doo.

So, tell me, what's Pau's go-to move? Does he have one?



I would if Timmy was a power forward his whole career.

Btw, players bank their shots because it softens up their shot. Easiest shot in basketball. That's why he shoots that boring shot. His touch is suspect.
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