Why Kobe is the greatest ever

[Lakers4Life]

http://www.slamonline.com/the-magazine/ ... ture-slam/

[3Peatkb24]

As much as I love doing lists and I am very opinionated on them as you know, there really isn't a clear cut GOAT in reality. I mean it's really impossible to determine who is because in reality it's impossible to compare different era's. I try to do it to the best of my ability but a lot of it is just my opinion eventhough I also lay out some facts to present my debates. A lot of it is just preference as well like taking Bird over LeBron for example or Kareem over Wilt. I never seen Wilt live so that is probably not even fair to Wilt technically. I just have his numbers, know his accolades, and have seen footage of him. Same for Bill Russell. For my money the best all-around player and leader of all-time was Magic Johnson (it was his ability to get everyone involved/his passing ability was unmatched) but he couldn't score like Jordan or Kobe or play Defense like them so it's a debate that will go on for decades and a fun one. I wish Kobe could've got Ring #6 as that would've really boosted his legacy, Jordan has 6 to Kobe and Magic's 5 so I always place Jordan at #1 factoring everything in. I think when it comes to comparing Jordan, Kobe, Magic, Bird, and LeBron Rings are very important being that they are the best floor players/non-Big's of all-time. If you go by era's, Kobe to me has been the best player in his era, Shaq was more dominant but he should've been at 7'1 330! I would take Kobe over Duncan as well, Kobe has always been the more explosive player compared to Duncan.

[3Peatkb24]

All are facts you Posted Tate. What I wish though is you didn't think I favor Bird because he is from Indiana because I really don't. It has nothing do with it. I favor Bird because he won 3 Championships being the best player on his team without Ring chasing, and he had to deal with us every season and he still won 3. I personally think LeBron is a Top 10 player of all-time and a better athlete than Bird but I also think he is soft because he left Cleveland knowing he could get a Ring joining Wade. Bird would never do that shit. Bird was so much more mentally oldschool tougher but that is my opinion and he is much better in the clutch as well. I still think LeBron is Top 10 but I prefer Bird and it's not because he is from Indiana. Regarding Peyton he is Top 3 of all-time regardless where he is from and almost everyone thinks that now, now that he got Ring 2. Peyton is arguably the best QB of all-time in reality because of his Stats, MVP's, SB MVP, and now 2 Rings.

[lakerevolution]

Dyson is an overly-book-educated motor-mouth social misfit, but I understand where he's coming from. A good article. Only the truest of Laker fans will know why Kobe is OUR greatest.

[3Peatkb24]

All are facts you Posted Tate. What I wish though is you didn't think I favor Bird because he is from Indiana because I really don't. It has nothing do with it. I favor Bird because he won 3 Championships being the best pla yer on his team without Ring chasing, and he had to deal with us every season and he still won 3. I personally think LeBron is a Top 10 player of all-time and a better athlete than Bird but I also think he is soft because he left Cleveland knowing he could get a Ring joining Wade. Bird would never do that shit. Bird was so much more mentally oldschool tougher but that is my opinion and he is much better in the clutch as well. I still think LeBron is Top 10 but I prefer Bird and it's not because he is from Indiana. Regarding Peyton he is Top 3 of all-time regardless where he is from and almost everyone thinks that now, now that he got Ring 2. Peyton is arguably the best QB of all-time in reality because of his Stats, MVP's, SB MVP, and now 2 Rings.

Yet, Lebron single-handed took the GSW to 6 games in the last Finals. No Kyrie. No Kevin Love. He was the best player on every team he's been on - by far. McHale, Parrish, Johnson, Archibald, Maxwell and Walton (all HOFers) were no slouches, either.


As for Peyton, he's not better than Montana, Elway, Bradshaw, Brady. Terry Bradshaw has FOUR rings. He has 2 SB MVPs. He has the most wins in the NFL by a starting qb. Number 1 draft pick. Yep, the "B"s will be still on his ass. Bradshaw, Brett Farve, Brady, Brees and Big Ben.


Luck's on a pace to outperform him in Indy, too. Luck is more agile, got a way stronger arm, and better legs.


Last, what's this I hear about Peyton sticking his junk in some lady trainer's face when he was in college? Shame on him! Pervert!

Peyton mooned a trainer back when he was in college, basically putting his rear end in her face but he never touched her as the lawsuit read (1996). The story is now resurfacing because some writer in NY dug it back up. She sued Tennessee and got $300,000 back in 2003 and sued Peyton as well and got an undisclosed amount of money. I am sure it was 6 figures at least. I wish I could get $300,000 for someone mooning me. She has changed her story over the years saying he sit on her face, etc.. and her credibility is really bad, she is a proven liar and is sue happy. She has sued several other people in the past as well. Look her up. If mooning was a major crime half a million people would be in jail (technically it is indecent exposure a misdemeanor, nothing more). I have been mooned several times at the Indy 500 back in the day when I used to go the race every year during the 90's when girls were partying. Young people do dumb stuff. He was 19 when it happened.

[3Peatkb24]

All are facts you Posted Tate. What I wish though is you didn't think I favor Bird because he is from Indiana because I really don't. It has nothing do with it. I favor Bird because he won 3 Championships being the best pla yer on his team without Ring chasing, and he had to deal with us every season and he still won 3. I personally think LeBron is a Top 10 player of all-time and a better athlete than Bird but I also think he is soft because he left Cleveland knowing he could get a Ring joining Wade. Bird would never do that shit. Bird was so much more mentally oldschool tougher but that is my opinion and he is much better in the clutch as well. I still think LeBron is Top 10 but I prefer Bird and it's not because he is from Indiana. Regarding Peyton he is Top 3 of all-time regardless where he is from and almost everyone thinks that now, now that he got Ring 2. Peyton is arguably the best QB of all-time in reality because of his Stats, MVP's, SB MVP, and now 2 Rings.

Yet, Lebron single-handed took the GSW to 6 games in the last Finals. No Kyrie. No Kevin Love. He was the best player on every team he's been on - by far. McHale, Parrish, Johnson, Archibald, Maxwell and Walton (all HOFers) were no slouches, either.


As for Peyton, he's not better than Montana, Elway, Bradshaw, Brady. Terry Bradshaw has FOUR rings. He has 2 SB MVPs. He has the most wins in the NFL by a starting qb. Number 1 draft pick. Yep, the "B"s will be still on his ass. Bradshaw, Brett Farve, Brady, Brees and Big Ben.


Luck's on a pace to outperform him in Indy, too. Luck is more agile, got a way stronger arm, and better legs.


Last, what's this I hear about Peyton sticking his junk in some lady trainer's face when he was in college? Shame on him! Pervert!

LeBron needs to win the Championship in Cleveland. He does that, that changes a lot. He needs to prove he can win one without Wade, JMO. Regarding Andrew Luck, yes Andrew is capable of being just as great as Peyton and I have always thought that. His first 3 seasons were Very Good, last season not so much due to injury. We will see what he brings this upcoming season. He does win games when he's healthy and has went deep in the Playoffs so you cant ask for much more except winning a SB at this point. Colts need to get a Defense for that to happen though.

[3Peatkb24]

Sorry for getting off topic Craig, that tends to happen with me Anyway great read regarding Kobe!

[3Peatkb24]

LeBron needs to win the Championship in Cleveland. He does that, that changes a lot. He needs to prove he can win one without Wade, JMO. Regarding Andrew Luck, yes Andrew is capable of being just as great as Peyton and I have always thought that. His first 3 seasons were Very Good, last season not so much due to injury. We will see what he brings this upcoming season. He does win games when he's healthy and has went deep in the Playoffs so you cant ask for much more except winning a SB at this point. Colts need to get a Defense for that to happen though.

I think he will. This year, too. Draymond Green can't stop Lebron and if Love goes off from behind the arc, and Kyrie, the GSW will be in trouble. Plus Tristan Thompson. That little Delladova guy will pester Steph and Klay Thompson and Kyrie is quick enough to stay in front of them. The CAVS are too physical for them to handle.

Bird never won without McHale and Parish and Dennis Johnson, either.

*3Peat said - I would just like to see LeBron win one without Wade because when he joined Wade, Wade was probably the 3rd best player in the league behind Kobe and LeBron at that time. Bird had McHale but McHale was never even a Top 5 player in the league at anytime IMO. Yes he was Great but Wade was in the argument for best player in the league back in 2010. Regarding Kobe, you may be right. I cant come up with an argument against him not being the best ever and I am glad because I love Kobe. I still favor Magic but maybe it's because that is who I grew up with as a kid but I love Kobe too.

[3Peatkb24]

Parish, McHale and Dennis Johnson are all HOFers. Top 5 or not, they were still top quality teammates. Last year, it was Lebron and fodder vs the GSW in the Finals. You don't go to 5 straight Finals if you're not a great player. Kobe, Magic, Jordan, Kareem, Wilt, Lebron, Oscar, West, Hakeem, Bird. That's my list.

Bird and Magic both were fortunate to play with many great players I agree. One really great argument for Kobe to being the best ever is he won a Back-to-Back with really Role players in 2009 and 2010. Pau was Very Good/semi Great in those years but no where near a Kareem or Shaq for example or Pippen or Wade. I have LeBron in my Top 10 so I don't disagree with you by much.

[3Peatkb24]

And, actually, I had trouble with putting Bird at #10. A case can be made for Shaq, Bill Russell, Tim Duncan, Karl Malone, Dominique and Dr J at the #10.

I have Shaq, Duncan, Russell in my Top 10. Karl Malone is Top 10 material but not winning a Ring is so glaring unfortunately. Dominique and DR J belong in the Top 10 all-time NBA athletes but overall players IDK, Doc never won a Championship until Moses Malone joined Philly and Moses was the better player in 1983. Unbelievably Dominique never made it to a Final 4 in his career? He is the Clippers, loaded with talent but never won anything Reggie Miller made it to the Conference Finals 6 times in his career and a Finals with Rik Smits being his 2nd best player for 5 of them, in 2004 Jermaine O'Neal was his sidekick when they made the Conference Finals.

[3Peatkb24]

Tate

If someone is superior athletic wise to another player that can sway someone's list but I would take John Stockton for example over a lot of players and he is about as athletic as I am Stockton is Top 30 ever easily. I think we pretty much agree the Top 5 is Jordan, Kobe, Magic, Kareem, and Wilt - I didn't put those in order so it's in any order, I know you have Kobe #1 after that it's 6-10 that is real debatable. I think Bill Russell has to be in it with 11 Championships won, probably the 2nd greatest leader and team player in Basketball history only behind Magic, and he was an awesome Rebounder and Defender. He still could score 20 Points if the Celtics needed it as well but their teams were so stacked he didn't need to score much or 30 or 40 Points for that matter. Bird belongs as he was the best player on 3 Championship teams during an era when he played against Magic + Bird is the last player to win 3 League MVP's in a row = 1984-1986. The other 3 that belong to me are Duncan who has been the face of the Spurs for almost 20 years with 5 Championships won, Shaq, and LeBron IMO. Between Oscar and LeBron that is real close though, both are Great all-around players but LeBron has more size like Magic had over a lot of players so I give it to LeBron. Between Shaq and Hakeem, that is debatable and Hakeem got the better of Shaq in the 1995 Finals but that was Shaq in his 3rd season and Shaq still averaged 28 and 12.5 against him Hakeem was 32 and 11.5 so Shaq held his own against an all-time great vet but Hakeem got the wins and Houston was just better. Penny couldn't carry Clyde Drexler's jock strap and Kenny Smith played like Reggie Miller that series making 3's like they were going out of style. Shaq is 1 of only 2 players to win 3 Finals MVP's in a row, only other player to do so was Jordan. That alone puts Shaq in the Top 10. I would take Oscar over West , Oscar was the better all-around player. Hell he averaged a Triple Double for 4 straight seasons basically/officially he did for 1 season. He could do it all, Score, Assist, and Rebound. Karl Malone (2nd all-time leading scorer) and Elgin Baylor are 2 others I love, they get overlooked because of the Championship pedigree. Lakers did give Elgin a Ring for 1972 but Elgin didn't play most of the season and didn't play in the Playoffs.

*You are the better judge between Oscar and West because you watched them live and I love West, miss him a lot being our GM but Oscar's numbers are silly. Anyone that averages a Triple Double for 1 season isn't human. Both won 1 Championship so that is even.

[3Peatkb24]

But the fact that you are over-looking is that Stockton's greatness was due in a huge part by the fact that he had Karl Malone on the receiving end of 75% of his assists. Malone is the 2nd leading scorer in NBA history. Take Malone off that team and Stockton becomes mortal.

Russell won rings because he had 4 HOFers in the starting lineup with him. Russell had his weaknesses too. He was a liability because he was such a horrendous free throw shooter. He was worse than Dwight. .561. If Russell was playing today, there would only be 3 players worse at shooting free throws than him.


Athleticism is part of the game.

While Bird may have won 3 league MVPs in a row, that was all. Lebron won a total of 4. 08/09, 09/10, 11/12, 12/13. Lebron also went to 5 straight Finals. Bird was never, ever, considered the best player on the planet. Lebron was. Bird never won a scoring title. lebron did.

This is another one of those debates that is futile. You'll never get me to believe that Bird was better than Lebron. Plus, two different eras. Lebron is playing against more superstars than Bird did, and, is doing more on the court than Bird. Bird was s shitty defender, compared to Lebron.

Anyhow, I've outlined a very detailed comparison of both players. If that's not enough to make the point then it's useless to talk about.

I am just glad you responded. I miss our old debates. I always thought they were fun and have never took anything personal. I know where you stand regarding your list and I respect that. Really between players like LeBron/Bird and Oscar/West tons of people debate who was better on TV and other Site's and it seems like it's 50/50. Although ESPN loves LeBron like no other player I have ever seen. Please Post more Tate and I will stay a way from the LeBron/Bird stuff. You have to remember although Bird is from Indiana I hated him and the Celtics like no other player or team because of the rivalry they had with the Lakers/Magic. So I am even being unbiased. As far as just liking someone, I like LeBron better than I do Bird or Jordan, I am not a LeBron fan but I couldn't stand Bird or Jordan to the fullest.

[3Peatkb24]

Oscar never won a Finals MVP. West did (while playing for the losing team).

This is very true. Both were outstanding players. I think the 60's was a great era of Basketball to read about and you were able to see it first hand. That decade had a lot of Great players but unfortunately the Celtics dominated that decade, nobody could beat them. Much like the Bulls did the 90's.