Best PF's of all-time, is it Karl or Timmy?

Best PF's of all-time, is it Karl or Timmy?

Postby 3Peatkb24 » Fri Mar 11, 2016 11:36 am

Choose at your own risk as Karl might get angry if you don't choose him LOL.
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Re: Best PF's of all-time, is it Karl or Timmy?

Postby Lakers4Life » Fri Mar 11, 2016 2:56 pm

3Peatkb24 wrote:Choose at your own risk as Karl might get angry if you don't choose him LOL.


I think Timmy is the ultimate PF team player
But Karl Malone was the better finisher, scorer & individual player
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Re: Best PF's of all-time, is it Karl or Timmy?

Postby NuggetsCountry » Fri Mar 11, 2016 4:16 pm

Was Moses Malone a 4 or 5? :panic:
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Re: Best PF's of all-time, is it Karl or Timmy?

Postby lakerevolution » Fri Mar 11, 2016 6:53 pm

This is very difficult. My heart says Karl, but my head says Tim. Throw the rings out. Tim had great - really great - teammates. He still sucks at the charity stripe and played in the Kobe Era, not the Jordan Era. Tim is the poster boy for quietude. Karl was vocal, aggressive, ran the floor like a gazelle and finished dunks like LeBron. He was solid at the FT line and - except for Stock - had little real championship-caliber talent to help him.

Tim has the hardware, Karl has the points and the muscle. Head to head, Karl would wear Tim down.

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Re: Best PF's of all-time, is it Karl or Timmy?

Postby 3Peatkb24 » Fri Mar 11, 2016 9:20 pm

NuggetsCountry wrote:Was Moses Malone a 4 or 5? :panic:


Moses played Center.
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Re: Best PF's of all-time, is it Karl or Timmy?

Postby 3Peatkb24 » Fri Mar 11, 2016 10:30 pm

Duncan is a PF/Center but is known as PF by most. These 2 players are the only 2 I could list at this position because I don't think anyone else is close to them, I know Bob Pettit was Great back in the 60's/late 50's and of course Charles was Great too but I think Karl and Timmy are quite a bit better than both. On the Center Thread I could've included Hakeem and Moses but I just listed the Mount Rushmore of Centers basically.
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Re: Best PF's of all-time, is it Karl or Timmy?

Postby KobeMVP888 » Sat Mar 12, 2016 9:33 am

It's Duncan by a country mile, but Timmy's really a center.
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Re: Best PF's of all-time, is it Karl or Timmy?

Postby Lakers4Life » Sun Mar 13, 2016 9:28 am

KobeMVP888 wrote:It's Duncan by a country mile, but Timmy's really a center.



Putting championships aside.....

Tim Duncan only has one thing over Malone. And that's BLOCKS. Which he should because he's actually a center.

Malone on the other hand has POINTS, ASSISTS & STEALS over Timmy.

(REBOUNDS & MVP'S are a tie)


Timmy "by a country mile"? I think NOT
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Re: Best PF's of all-time, is it Karl or Timmy?

Postby 3Peatkb24 » Sun Mar 13, 2016 10:36 am

Lakers4Life wrote:
KobeMVP888 wrote:It's Duncan by a country mile, but Timmy's really a center.



Putting championships aside.....

Tim Duncan only has one thing over Malone. And that's BLOCKS. Which he should because he's actually a center.

Malone on the other hand has POINTS, ASSISTS & STEALS over Timmy.

(REBOUNDS & MVP'S are a tie)


Timmy "by a country mile"? I think NOT


I agree, I don't disagree with Kenny much but if you put Malone on the Spurs and take Duncan off I don't think Spurs lose a beat. It's ashame Malone doesn't get the respect in general from the fans and media because he has 0 Championships. That is a part of ranking players though and because of that I give the nod to Duncan but SLIGHTLY. Had Malone just won 1 or 2 Championships I would say Malone should rank higher. It's just something you need for a resume. That is what made Peyton's resume complete getting multiple Rings. It's pretty cool to see guys like you and Rev favor Malone because it's rare. Duncan is always called the greatest PF by the media/by Charles Barkley, etc.. so eventhough he has Center's size and plays that position now, when Robinson was playing he played PF. He is a PF/Center like Pau is. Players like Moses always played the 5. Ken, let me ask you this - How many Championships do you think Duncan would have had he met the Bulls in his prime? I can answer that, it would be none. It's unfortunate in the 2 seasons Malone figured it out he had Michael, Scottie, and Phil + Rodman standing in his way. Those Utah teams played beautiful basketball with their passing, old school style but the Bulls were just too much. Malone is a Top 20 player of all-time regardless, probably Top 15 actually. I would put Timmy Top 10 but not better than players like Kobe or Bird.
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Re: Best PF's of all-time, is it Karl or Timmy?

Postby KobeMVP888 » Wed Mar 16, 2016 12:22 pm

I can't set the championships aside, nor can I set Malone's failures to win a championship aside, nor can I set aside the fact that Karl Malone's career was essentially one big "two man game," not a five man game, nor can I set aside his defensive deficiencies compared to Timmy's stellar defense.

I'll stick to my "country mile," statistics aside.
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Re: Best PF's of all-time, is it Karl or Timmy?

Postby 3Peatkb24 » Wed Mar 16, 2016 2:47 pm

KobeMVP888 wrote:I can't set the championships aside, nor can I set Malone's failures to win a championship aside, nor can I set aside the fact that Karl Malone's career was essentially one big "two man game," not a five man game, nor can I set aside his defensive deficiencies compared to Timmy's stellar defense.

I'll stick to my "country mile," statistics aside.


Timmy's Defense and Rings are the main reasons why I give Tim the SLIGHT EDGE. Offensively and running the floor, Malone is better though, Malone is also a better Passer. I am not really sure how much blame Malone should get for coming up short in the Playoffs because a lot of times Stockton just failed to score in their biggest Playoff games. If Stockton would've played most of their big games like he did against the Rockets in 1997 Game 6 of the WCF's than I think that would've even been enough to get Malone a Ring. Stockton at best was Good against the Bulls, far from Great. Malone just didn't have enough help going against a team like Jordan, Pippen, Rodman, Kukoc, Kerr, etc.. + Phil. The best Spurs team which was probably 2003 or 2014 would not have beat the Bulls either.
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Re: Best PF's of all-time, is it Karl or Timmy?

Postby 3Peatkb24 » Wed Mar 16, 2016 5:03 pm

3Peatkb24 wrote:
KobeMVP888 wrote:I can't set the championships aside, nor can I set Malone's failures to win a championship aside, nor can I set aside the fact that Karl Malone's career was essentially one big "two man game," not a five man game, nor can I set aside his defensive deficiencies compared to Timmy's stellar defense.

I'll stick to my "country mile," statistics aside.


Timmy's Defense and Rings are the main reasons why I give Tim the SLIGHT EDGE. Offensively and running the floor, Malone is better though, Malone is also a better Passer. I am not really sure how much blame Malone should get for coming up short in the Playoffs because a lot of times Stockton just failed to score in their biggest Playoff games. If Stockton would've played most of their big games like he did against the Rockets in 1997 Game 6 of the WCF's than I think that would've even been enough to get Malone a Ring. Stockton at best was Good against the Bulls, far from Great. Malone just didn't have enough help going against a team like Jordan, Pippen, Rodman, Kukoc, Kerr, etc.. + Phil. The best Spurs team which was probably 2003 or 2014 would not have beat the Bulls either.


I know it's all opinion but I have no doubt the 1997Jazz would've beat the 2014 Heat, definitely would've wiped the floor against the 2007 Cavs/2003 Nyets/ and1999 Knicks and that was 4 of Tim's Rings. The Spurs have played some weak teams in the Finals. Timmy has been very fortunate when it has come to that. In 2005, they beat the Pistons who were formidable but no where the 1997 or 1998 Bulls. Timmy's Defense, higher basketball IQ, and his resume because of the rings gives him a slight edge IMO. Look at what happened in 1998, Malone destroyed Robinson and Duncan both in the Playoffs. The Jazz also kicked our ass in 1998 and we had Shaq in his prime + Kobe in year 2.
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Re: Best PF's of all-time, is it Karl or Timmy?

Postby Lakers4Life » Wed Mar 16, 2016 8:30 pm

3Peatkb24 wrote:
3Peatkb24 wrote:
KobeMVP888 wrote:I can't set the championships aside, nor can I set Malone's failures to win a championship aside, nor can I set aside the fact that Karl Malone's career was essentially one big "two man game," not a five man game, nor can I set aside his defensive deficiencies compared to Timmy's stellar defense.

I'll stick to my "country mile," statistics aside.


Timmy's Defense and Rings are the main reasons why I give Tim the SLIGHT EDGE. Offensively and running the floor, Malone is better though, Malone is also a better Passer. I am not really sure how much blame Malone should get for coming up short in the Playoffs because a lot of times Stockton just failed to score in their biggest Playoff games. If Stockton would've played most of their big games like he did against the Rockets in 1997 Game 6 of the WCF's than I think that would've even been enough to get Malone a Ring. Stockton at best was Good against the Bulls, far from Great. Malone just didn't have enough help going against a team like Jordan, Pippen, Rodman, Kukoc, Kerr, etc.. + Phil. The best Spurs team which was probably 2003 or 2014 would not have beat the Bulls either.


I know it's all opinion but I have no doubt the 1997Jazz would've beat the 2014 Heat, definitely would've wiped the floor against the 2007 Cavs/2003 Nyets/ and1999 Knicks and that was 4 of Tim's Rings. The Spurs have played some weak teams in the Finals. Timmy has been very fortunate when it has come to that. In 2005, they beat the Pistons who were formidable but no where the 1997 or 1998 Bulls. Timmy's Defense, higher basketball IQ, and his resume because of the rings gives him a slight edge IMO. Look at what happened in 1998, Malone destroyed Robinson and Duncan both in the Playoffs. The Jazz also kicked our ass in 1998 and we had Shaq in his prime + Kobe in year 2



Points Per Game

Tim Duncan 19.1
Karl Malone 25.0

Rebounds Per Game

Tim Duncan 10.9
Karl Malone 10.1


Assists Per Game

Tim Duncan 3.0
Karl Malone 3.6


Steals Per Game

Tim Duncan 0.7
Karl Malone 1.4


Blocks Per Game

Tim Duncan 2.2
Karl Malone 0.8

 
Total Points

Tim Duncan 26,399
Karl Malone 36,928


Total Rebounds

Tim Duncan 15,014
Karl Malone 14,968


Total Assists

Tim Duncan 4,203
Karl Malone 5,248

Total Steals

Tim Duncan 1020
Karl Malone 2085

Total Blocks

Tim Duncan 3004
Karl Malone 1145


Again except for the blocks, which Timmy kills Karl (which he should since he's a center) Karl is right there with Timmy. And truthfully Karl Malone kills Timmy in steals, assists & of course points (2nd leading scorer in NBA history). So based off that, they are pretty even. (Depends on how much weight you give each category)

1 on 1 I got Karl. But I'd build a team around Timmy.

Now when you throw in Championships it's no contest.


Overall I'd still say that's it's not a country mile. :duel:
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Re: Best PF's of all-time, is it Karl or Timmy?

Postby 3Peatkb24 » Thu Mar 17, 2016 4:39 am

Lakers4Life wrote:
3Peatkb24 wrote:
3Peatkb24 wrote:
KobeMVP888 wrote:I can't set the championships aside, nor can I set Malone's failures to win a championship aside, nor can I set aside the fact that Karl Malone's career was essentially one big "two man game," not a five man game, nor can I set aside his defensive deficiencies compared to Timmy's stellar defense.

I'll stick to my "country mile," statistics aside.


Timmy's Defense and Rings are the main reasons why I give Tim the SLIGHT EDGE. Offensively and running the floor, Malone is better though, Malone is also a better Passer. I am not really sure how much blame Malone should get for coming up short in the Playoffs because a lot of times Stockton just failed to score in their biggest Playoff games. If Stockton would've played most of their big games like he did against the Rockets in 1997 Game 6 of the WCF's than I think that would've even been enough to get Malone a Ring. Stockton at best was Good against the Bulls, far from Great. Malone just didn't have enough help going against a team like Jordan, Pippen, Rodman, Kukoc, Kerr, etc.. + Phil. The best Spurs team which was probably 2003 or 2014 would not have beat the Bulls either.


I know it's all opinion but I have no doubt the 1997Jazz would've beat the 2014 Heat, definitely would've wiped the floor against the 2007 Cavs/2003 Nyets/ and1999 Knicks and that was 4 of Tim's Rings. The Spurs have played some weak teams in the Finals. Timmy has been very fortunate when it has come to that. In 2005, they beat the Pistons who were formidable but no where the 1997 or 1998 Bulls. Timmy's Defense, higher basketball IQ, and his resume because of the rings gives him a slight edge IMO. Look at what happened in 1998, Malone destroyed Robinson and Duncan both in the Playoffs. The Jazz also kicked our ass in 1998 and we had Shaq in his prime + Kobe in year 2



Points Per Game

Tim Duncan 19.1
Karl Malone 25.0

Rebounds Per Game

Tim Duncan 10.9
Karl Malone 10.1


Assists Per Game

Tim Duncan 3.0
Karl Malone 3.6


Steals Per Game

Tim Duncan 0.7
Karl Malone 1.4


Blocks Per Game

Tim Duncan 2.2
Karl Malone 0.8

 
Total Points

Tim Duncan 26,399
Karl Malone 36,928


Total Rebounds

Tim Duncan 15,014
Karl Malone 14,968


Total Assists

Tim Duncan 4,203
Karl Malone 5,248

Total Steals

Tim Duncan 1020
Karl Malone 2085

Total Blocks

Tim Duncan 3004
Karl Malone 1145


Again except for the blocks, which Timmy kills Karl (which he should since he's a center) Karl is right there with Timmy. And truthfully Karl Malone kills Timmy in steals, assists & of course points (2nd leading scorer in NBA history). So based off that, they are pretty even. (Depends on how much weight you give each category)

1 on 1 I got Karl. But I'd build a team around Timmy.

Now when you throw in Championships it's no contest.


Overall I'd still say that's it's not a country mile. :duel:


It's clearly not a country mile by looking at the stats especially. I think Ken is like most people in general though in that Rings weigh in heavily when ranking players. That's not a knock against you Ken because it's natural but if that is the case why wouldnt you have Bill Russell rated higher than Wilt Chamberlain? That's a fair question because in the ring department it's not even close. If it was something 4-2 like Brady has over Peyton that is one thing but 11-2 isn't even close and Russell was the best player/leader on his teams when they won. To me Timmy has played on stack teams and has had a better Coach compared to what Malone had, same thing with Russell compared to Wilt. I do think Timmy is better but it's by a hair.
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Re: Best PF's of all-time, is it Karl or Timmy?

Postby 3Peatkb24 » Thu Mar 17, 2016 11:02 am

Regarding the Ring argument and It has to be a player that was either the best player on his team = a 1 or a 1B player/2nd best player on his team for every Ring. Not a role player like Horry. Here would be the Top 5 players of all-time:
1. Bill Russell 11 = a 1
2. Michael Jordan 6 = a 1
3. Cap 6 = a 1 and 1B. Cap was 1B with Magic IMO.
4. Scottie Pippen 6 = a 1B, Jordan was always 1.
5. Magic Johnson 5 = a 1
-Kobe Bryant 5 = a 1 and 1B. He was 1B with Shaq in 2000. Magic would be #5 because Magic was never 1B. Magic won MVP of the Finals his rookie year.
-Duncan has won 5 but in 2014 he wasn't even the 2nd best player on his team, Parker and Leonard both were better. Leonard dominated the Finals winning MVP and Parker led the team in scoring that season.

My point is this list stinks. Pippen isn't even Top 20.
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