Second Trimester Grades

Second Trimester Grades

Postby KobeMVP888 » Tue Feb 16, 2016 11:12 am

I know this is a useless exercise because the season is so flushed that we don't even care about the trade deadline or anything else that's going on for the most part, but I think it's worth a look back if for no other reason than the progress of our infants:

Kobe: C- (a few F's and a few As sprinkled in there)
Randle: B (we're seeing noticeable progress)
Russell: C+ (just too inconsistent to grade him higher, but at least his rookie numbers are better than Harden's)
Clarkson: B (he's proving to be a legit NBA player; the question to me is his ceiling. Like Robert, I think he's our trade bait)
Nance: B+ (but for the injury, I'd have given him an A-)
A Brown: B- (I wish he had more minutes, but his progress at both ends is noticeable)
Black: B- (it's not his fault that he isn't getting minutes, but when he's in there, he's our best center)
Hibbert: F (what a useless stiff)
Bass: C+ (he had some solid stretches and some not so solid stretches)
Lou Williams: C+ (fun to watch, but just too inconsistent)
Nick Young: F (Shitty P)
Marcelo Huertas: F (he stinks. Not an NBA player and deserves to rot at the end of the bench)
Robert Sacre: F (he will always be an F; might be the worst NBA player of all-time)
MWP: Incomplete
Ryan Kelly: F- (if that is even possible)

Byron Scott: Who the Fuck Knows
Gary Vitti: A+
I LOVE BASKETBALL! GO LAKERS! #18 COMIN' UP STRONG!!! TOO EASY, JUST WAAAAY TOO EASY!!!!! NEXT! :rollyellow:
User avatar
KobeMVP888
 
Posts: 3250
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015 9:16 pm
Has thanked: 406 times
Been thanked: 548 times

Re: Second Trimester Grades

Postby 3Peatkb24 » Tue Feb 16, 2016 4:43 pm

KobeMVP888 wrote:I know this is a useless exercise because the season is so flushed that we don't even care about the trade deadline or anything else that's going on for the most part, but I think it's worth a look back if for no other reason than the progress of our infants:

Kobe: C- (a few F's and a few As sprinkled in there)
Randle: B (we're seeing noticeable progress)
Russell: C+ (just too inconsistent to grade him higher, but at least his rookie numbers are better than Harden's)
Clarkson: B (he's proving to be a legit NBA player; the question to me is his ceiling. Like Robert, I think he's our trade bait)
Nance: B+ (but for the injury, I'd have given him an A-)
A Brown: B- (I wish he had more minutes, but his progress at both ends is noticeable)
Black: B- (it's not his fault that he isn't getting minutes, but when he's in there, he's our best center)
Hibbert: F (what a useless stiff)
Bass: C+ (he had some solid stretches and some not so solid stretches)
Lou Williams: C+ (fun to watch, but just too inconsistent)
Nick Young: F (Shitty P)
Marcelo Huertas: F (he stinks. Not an NBA player and deserves to rot at the ed of the bench)
Robert Sacre: F (he will always be an F; might be the worst NBA player of all-time)
MWP: Incomplete
Ryan Kelly: F- (if that is even possible)


*I'll go Kobe: C, like you said a few F's/nights off not playing but also has had some Good to Great moments as well. I graded him slightly higher than you, C without the -
*Randle: C+, To me, he is still just slightly an Above Average player so the + was added. He should be better by now.
*Russell: C+, Same grade as Randle, inconsistent but is an Above Average player. We agree.
*Clarkson: B+, not an AllStar but Good. He's our best player.
*Nance: B-, has promise but hasn't done enough to be ranked real high. I still gave him a B- for what he has done, higher than Randle or Russell.
*A Brown: C, haven't seen enough of him to go higher than a C
*Black: B-, should get more playing time! We agree
*Hibbert: D-, I didn't go F but he's bad at times. He has been decent though in a few games as well.
*Bass: D, Like Hibbert basically. It just isn't working out.
*Lou Williams: B, Ken I think you under graded him. He has been Good for the most part IMO.
*Nick Young: F, my first F as you say Shitty P :waaaaa:, we agree
*Marcelo Huertas: F, my 2nd F. He isn't an NBA player! We agree.
*Robert Sacre: F, my 3rd F. We agree again!
*Ryan Kelly: F, my 4th F. No an F- isn't possible :roflmao:
*Metta: He doesn't even play "lol4:
*Byron: C, I'll go C because our Roster stinks. Cant go higher than that because of our record though.
4 best Titles- 1988 Repeat Lakers/2002 3Peat Lakers/2006 Colts/2016 Cubs
User avatar
3Peatkb24
 
Posts: 7130
Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2015 10:54 am
Has thanked: 991 times
Been thanked: 426 times

Re: Second Trimester Grades

Postby KobeMVP888 » Tue Feb 16, 2016 5:44 pm

3Peat

Where do you think Randle, Russell and Nance should be in their progress? Are you using your terms as they apply to veteran NBA players, other rookies or against where they are now vs. where they were when they started the season? I'm just curious because the way I read your analysis, you seem to be measuring these guys against all NBA players at their respective positions or all NBA players period. They are infants.

Note: Randle is averaging a double-double, is 10th in the league in rebounds per game (10.0) and 7th in rebounds per 48 mpg (17.5). Towns is .1 ahead of him in rpg, but for 48 mpg, Randle has him 17.5 to 16.1. Not too shabby for a rookie.
I LOVE BASKETBALL! GO LAKERS! #18 COMIN' UP STRONG!!! TOO EASY, JUST WAAAAY TOO EASY!!!!! NEXT! :rollyellow:
User avatar
KobeMVP888
 
Posts: 3250
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015 9:16 pm
Has thanked: 406 times
Been thanked: 548 times

Re: Second Trimester Grades

Postby 3Peatkb24 » Tue Feb 16, 2016 6:22 pm

KobeMVP888 wrote:3Peat

Where do you think Randle, Russell and Nance should be in their progress? Are you using your terms as they apply to veteran NBA players, other rookies or against where they are now vs. where they were when they started the season? I'm just curious because the way I read your analysis, you seem to be measuring these guys against all NBA players at their respective positions or all NBA players period. They are infants.

Note: Randle is averaging a double-double, is 10th in the league in rebounds per game (10.0) and 7th in rebounds per 48 mpg (17.5). Towns is .1 ahead of him in rpg, but for 48 mpg, Randle has him 17.5 to 16.1. Not too shabby for a rookie.


Our grades are similar but I do see you rank Randle a bit higher than I do. I think Randle should be better than Russell and he isn't, they are about the same. His numbers are better but they should be because he is in year 2. I know he was injured last season so technically he is a Rookie but he has been around the NBA longer than Russell. I actually graded Russell the same as you which is shocking. I still gave Randle a C+ which isn't that bad and Nance a B-. I think giving Nance a B+ was kind of high because to me a B+ rookie would have to be like Clarkson played last season.
4 best Titles- 1988 Repeat Lakers/2002 3Peat Lakers/2006 Colts/2016 Cubs
User avatar
3Peatkb24
 
Posts: 7130
Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2015 10:54 am
Has thanked: 991 times
Been thanked: 426 times

Re: Second Trimester Grades

Postby KobeMVP888 » Tue Feb 16, 2016 8:11 pm

3Peatkb24 wrote:Our grades are similar but I do see you rank Randle a bit higher than I do. I think Randle should be better than Russell and he isn't, they are about the same. His numbers are better but they should be because he is in year 2. I know he was injured last season so technically he is a Rookie but he has been around the NBA longer than Russell. I actually graded Russell the same as you which is shocking. I still gave Randle a C+ which isn't that bad and Nance a B-. I think giving Nance a B+ was kind of high because to me a B+ rookie would have to be like Clarkson played last season.


You still didn't answer my questions. I also couldn't disagree with you more about Randle's status. He's a rookie. Being "around the NBA" and actually playing in NBA games are two entirely different things.
I LOVE BASKETBALL! GO LAKERS! #18 COMIN' UP STRONG!!! TOO EASY, JUST WAAAAY TOO EASY!!!!! NEXT! :rollyellow:
User avatar
KobeMVP888
 
Posts: 3250
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015 9:16 pm
Has thanked: 406 times
Been thanked: 548 times

Re: Second Trimester Grades

Postby 3Peatkb24 » Tue Feb 16, 2016 9:06 pm

KobeMVP888 wrote:
3Peatkb24 wrote:Our grades are similar but I do see you rank Randle a bit higher than I do. I think Randle should be better than Russell and he isn't, they are about the same. His numbers are better but they should be because he is in year 2. I know he was injured last season so technically he is a Rookie but he has been around the NBA longer than Russell. I actually graded Russell the same as you which is shocking. I still gave Randle a C+ which isn't that bad and Nance a B-. I think giving Nance a B+ was kind of high because to me a B+ rookie would have to be like Clarkson played last season.


You still didn't answer my questions. I also couldn't disagree with you more about Randle's status. He's a rookie. Being "around the NBA" and actually playing in NBA games are two entirely different things.


Randle should be at least 17 and 11 being in year 2 and he isn't and that isn't even Very Good or Great, It's Good. Russell as a Rookie being the #2 pick should be 15 Points, 7 Assists and he isn't close to either and for a #2 pick that isn't anything special or asking too much. Nance was a low Draft pick and has played well at times so I gave him the better grade to answer your questions.
4 best Titles- 1988 Repeat Lakers/2002 3Peat Lakers/2006 Colts/2016 Cubs
User avatar
3Peatkb24
 
Posts: 7130
Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2015 10:54 am
Has thanked: 991 times
Been thanked: 426 times

Re: Second Trimester Grades

Postby KobeMVP888 » Tue Feb 16, 2016 11:03 pm

There you go again with this "Year 2" shit. In MLB, September call ups can play for a month and still retain their rookie status. The NBA has different, albeit fucked up, rules but Randle played all of 14 minutes in his rookie season, so for all intents and purposes, he is a ROOKIE. Pau Gasol's CAREER averages (actually, this season's numbers) are what you expect from a 21 year old undersized rookie power forward? You expect way too much from 19 year old D'Angelo Russell, too, at these INFANT stages of his career. How would you have rated Kobe after Year 1 of his career? Look up Harden's and Westbrook's rookie numbers and get back to me. I guess all of them were Average, too. What is your criteria?
I LOVE BASKETBALL! GO LAKERS! #18 COMIN' UP STRONG!!! TOO EASY, JUST WAAAAY TOO EASY!!!!! NEXT! :rollyellow:
User avatar
KobeMVP888
 
Posts: 3250
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015 9:16 pm
Has thanked: 406 times
Been thanked: 548 times

Re: Second Trimester Grades

Postby lakerevolution » Wed Feb 17, 2016 12:17 pm

I don't get to watch as many games as some of you, but it isn't hard to see that we are getting better as a team. Still a ton of work to do via trades and drafts to make this into a team capable of post-season contention. The front office has to make things happen pretty soon or Laker Nation is going to start losing it's patience. :scared2:
User avatar
lakerevolution
 
Posts: 3028
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015 9:36 pm
Has thanked: 217 times
Been thanked: 454 times

Re: Second Trimester Grades

Postby KobeMVP888 » Wed Feb 17, 2016 1:44 pm

lakerevolution wrote:I don't get to watch as many games as some of you, but it isn't hard to see that we are getting better as a team. Still a ton of work to do via trades and drafts to make this into a team capable of post-season contention. The front office has to make things happen pretty soon or Laker Nation is going to start losing it's patience. :scared2:


I believe that Lakers Nation lost its patience about 2 games into the Dallas series in 2011 and has never recovered. I just wish we'd actually lose some of the shittier fans.

Barring a miracle, we are looking at the end of the decade at the earliest to reclaim elite status. The miracle would be a Heatles-like, 2007-08 Chowd-like or 2014 LeBrons-like summer where collusion among stars to wear the Purple & Gold rules the day.

I'm sure the shitty fans who jump ship will jump right back on the bandwagon once we're back on top.
I LOVE BASKETBALL! GO LAKERS! #18 COMIN' UP STRONG!!! TOO EASY, JUST WAAAAY TOO EASY!!!!! NEXT! :rollyellow:
User avatar
KobeMVP888
 
Posts: 3250
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015 9:16 pm
Has thanked: 406 times
Been thanked: 548 times

Re: Second Trimester Grades

Postby 3Peatkb24 » Wed Feb 17, 2016 7:43 pm

KobeMVP888 wrote:There you go again with this "Year 2" shit. In MLB, September call ups can play for a month and still retain their rookie status. The NBA has different, albeit fucked up, rules but Randle played all of 14 minutes in his rookie season, so for all intents and purposes, he is a ROOKIE. Pau Gasol's CAREER averages (actually, this season's numbers) are what you expect from a 21 year old undersized rookie power forward? You expect way too much from 19 year old D'Angelo Russell, too, at these INFANT stages of his career. How would you have rated Kobe after Year 1 of his career? Look up Harden's and Westbrook's rookie numbers and get back to me. I guess all of them were Average, too. What is your criteria?


You say Pau's career averages. Career averages is the key term here, he has basically averaged that over a long career. For a 15 year career that is Very Good. For just a few seasons 17 and 11 is about what a PF should average if he's any good. I really don't see the big deal as you gave Randle a B and I gave him a C+ and we both graded Russell the same and Nance higher than both and dished out our F's where they were needed. We pretty much agreed on a lot of these grades. One other thing Pau was never the #1 option here in LA, Kobe always was when we were great otherwise Pau would've 20 and 11 easily IMO. To me Randle should be the first option being our best Big.
4 best Titles- 1988 Repeat Lakers/2002 3Peat Lakers/2006 Colts/2016 Cubs
User avatar
3Peatkb24
 
Posts: 7130
Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2015 10:54 am
Has thanked: 991 times
Been thanked: 426 times

Re: Second Trimester Grades

Postby 3Peatkb24 » Wed Feb 17, 2016 7:50 pm

Regarding the fans. Most fanbases are like ours. If you don't win most people lose interest or get impatient especially when it happens 3 or 4 years in a row. I have stuck with this team through thick and thin and will continue to do so but I even haven't been pleased with our play night in and night out and really hope Mitch and Jimmy have sort of plan or direction. I still think we should've took Okafor for example, had we done that, Hibbert would've never been brought in and we would've had a true Big 3 with Clarkson, Randle, and Okafor. + Nance. I do love the Nance Draft pick so I give our FO credit there and also the way we got Clarkson was excellent so the FO has had their moments.
4 best Titles- 1988 Repeat Lakers/2002 3Peat Lakers/2006 Colts/2016 Cubs
User avatar
3Peatkb24
 
Posts: 7130
Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2015 10:54 am
Has thanked: 991 times
Been thanked: 426 times

Re: Second Trimester Grades

Postby KobeMVP888 » Thu Feb 18, 2016 8:04 am

3Peat

I really don't understand your point about Pau. He was and remains a very special player who will be inducted into the Hall of Fame. Perhaps your criteria is very strict, but that qualifies him as Great. No not in the MegaStar Great category, but as the second best player on two championship teams with incredibly consistent career averages (18.3, 9.5, 3.3, 1.7), there are not many players out there to compare him to during his 15 seasons. Another Great player who Randle may or may not ever measure up to is Blake Griffin. Pau was a #3 overall pick. Blake was a #1 overall pick.

I wasn't looking at the grades you gave; it was the criteria that puzzled me. All the announcers, when it's the Lakers local announcers or the national guys, consider Randle to be a rookie for all intents and purposes, including your guy, Reggie. Not only that, but in terms of his scoring, he has to deal with the Kobe sideshow along with learning how to score among the trees as an undersized yet brutal power forward. Throw in Jordan Clarkson's and Lou Williams' need to score, the fact that Byron shortened his minutes once Nance started, the rest of the Shit Show around him, and the reality is that he is showing tremendous progress for his rookie season. Your read seems to be more like he should be performing as a veteran by now. I just don't understand where you're coming from on him. Same with Russell. Both are progressing nicely, just not as nicely as Lakers fans dreamed they would. There aren't many rookies playing better than them. You should be looking at them as rookies, not as veterans IMHO. Look at other teams whose cores are very young, inexperienced players, even Minny with Towns, Wiggins and Lavine, and I'll show you teams with losing records. We just need to remain very patient.
I LOVE BASKETBALL! GO LAKERS! #18 COMIN' UP STRONG!!! TOO EASY, JUST WAAAAY TOO EASY!!!!! NEXT! :rollyellow:
User avatar
KobeMVP888
 
Posts: 3250
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015 9:16 pm
Has thanked: 406 times
Been thanked: 548 times

Re: Second Trimester Grades

Postby lakerevolution » Thu Feb 18, 2016 2:46 pm

It comes down to desire and attitude. Will Russell and Randle turn into a version of Stockton and Malone? Which "core" will we keep that can build that continuity and connection like the Warriors have? The answer lies in who a) is available in a trade and b) wants to be a Laker. I see things getting better in about 2 years. I hope!
User avatar
lakerevolution
 
Posts: 3028
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015 9:36 pm
Has thanked: 217 times
Been thanked: 454 times

Re: Second Trimester Grades

Postby KobeMVP888 » Thu Feb 18, 2016 3:10 pm

3Peat

One last thing about Randle. These were second trimester grades and in his last 11 games, he has averaged 13.7 ppg, 11.8 rpg, 30.1 mpg, 11 shots per game and 47.9% from the field. Those are very solid numbers for a rookie on a team where he's usually the fourth option (Kobe, Lou, Clarkson are all ahead of him). Considering that he is clearly trending upward significantly, I should have given him a higher grade.
I LOVE BASKETBALL! GO LAKERS! #18 COMIN' UP STRONG!!! TOO EASY, JUST WAAAAY TOO EASY!!!!! NEXT! :rollyellow:
User avatar
KobeMVP888
 
Posts: 3250
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015 9:16 pm
Has thanked: 406 times
Been thanked: 548 times

Re: Second Trimester Grades

Postby 3Peatkb24 » Thu Feb 18, 2016 5:49 pm

KobeMVP888 wrote:3Peat

I really don't understand your point about Pau. He was and remains a very special player who will be inducted into the Hall of Fame. Perhaps your criteria is very strict, but that qualifies him as Great. No not in the MegaStar Great category, but as the second best player on two championship teams with incredibly consistent career averages (18.3, 9.5, 3.3, 1.7), there are not many players out there to compare him to during his 15 seasons. Another Great player who Randle may or may not ever measure up to is Blake Griffin. Pau was a #3 overall pick. Blake was a #1 overall pick.

I wasn't looking at the grades you gave; it was the criteria that puzzled me. All the announcers, when it's the Lakers local announcers or the national guys, consider Randle to be a rookie for all intents and purposes, including your guy, Reggie. Not only that, but in terms of his scoring, he has to deal with the Kobe sideshow along with learning how to score among the trees as an undersized yet brutal power forward. Throw in Jordan Clarkson's and Lou Williams' need to score, the fact that Byron shortened his minutes once Nance started, the rest of the Shit Show around him, and the reality is that he is showing tremendous progress for his rookie season. Your read seems to be more like he should be performing as a veteran by now. I just don't understand where you're coming from on him. Same with Russell. Both are progressing nicely, just not as nicely as Lakers fans dreamed they would. There aren't many rookies playing better than them. You should be looking at them as rookies, not as veterans IMHO. Look at other teams whose cores are very young, inexperienced players, even Minny with Towns, Wiggins and Lavine, and I'll show you teams with losing records. We just need to remain very patient.


I never said Pau wasn't a special player. Pau has put up Very Good numbers throughout his NBA career sprinkled in by 2 Championships which makes a Great career. So Pau has had a Great career overall and is no doubt a HOFamer
. His all-time stats aren't like Karl Malone's for example or Tim Duncan's which I put as Great. Tim's stats are a little skewed so his all-time scoring average is below 20 now but that's because the Spurs haven't used as much over the last few years. I also paid Pau a huge complement by saying had he been the #1 option in LA his stats would've been better. So not sure how you think I am belittling Pau? You have completely misread everything I have posted on this thread for some reason?? You and I gave Russell the same grade so I don't understand your thinking there either by saying I am not seeing progression with him. He and Randle both have progressed throughout the season but I just don't see Randle has a B player - the grade you gave him. To me he is an Above Average player with the potential to be Good to Very Good. It's just not his numbers, I have watched almost every Laker game and going by the eye test he has had a lot of mediocre games is my point, so has Russell. That is just truth speak. Also I have remained very Patient. I am here every day and watch or follow every game. What needs to be preached is patience to the people that constantly bash the team, don't follow them because they are losing, and to the people that don't Post and I am not one of those fans. Having said that I am not going to get on here and say Russell and Randle have been Good when they have been inconsistent most of the season. I'll throw the numbers game at you, don't you think being the #2 pick in the Draft that Russell should be around 15 Points and 7 Assists a game which isn't anything Great but Good for a rookie. He is not even close to either one of those. Regarding Randle yes his numbers are borderline Good for a rookie but I thought he would be better, maybe my expectation for him was too high coming into the season. I just thought he would be that good right off the bat is all. Next season for both guys will tell us a lot in whether or not these guys will be Good or better. Look at how Clarkson is playing, now that is progression. To me there should be no excuses at all next season. We have Cap room to make something big happen and our Rookie's will be 2nd year players. Also will probably have a Top 3 pick. If we stink next season something needs to be changed.
4 best Titles- 1988 Repeat Lakers/2002 3Peat Lakers/2006 Colts/2016 Cubs
User avatar
3Peatkb24
 
Posts: 7130
Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2015 10:54 am
Has thanked: 991 times
Been thanked: 426 times

Next

Return to LakerTalk



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 44 guests

cron